My Journey With Mathematics

R.M. said:
I've taken "abstract" at the undergrad level and "modern" at the graduate level, and found that both courses covered the same basic 3 topics: groups, rings, fields. In fact, the graduate course was officially listed as just 'algebra', but the professor referred to it as "modern algebra" occasionally. Long story short, it's another example in mathematics of giving different names to the same thing.
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They are the same course.
 
pka said:
It was just an absolute accident of history.
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Accident? I saw a few clips of this course. It is intense. Not for me, thank you. Having trouble with precalculus much less abstract material.
 
I recall former FMH, MHB AND MHF helper Soroban actively and daily providing service online back in 2006. At the time, if memory serves me right, he was 75 years old. Soroban taught college math for 25 years.

We became good friends in 2006. I recall his great help with geometry. I had my own place in the Far Rockaway area of Queens, NY at the time. Does anyone know what happened to Soroban? Is he still alive? If so, is he ok? There's gotta be someone here who knows about Soroban.
 
harpazo said:
I recall former FMH, MHB AND MHF helper Soroban actively and daily providing service online back in 2006. At the time, if memory serves me right, he was 75 years old. Soroban taught college math for 25 years.

We became good friends in 2006. I recall his great help with geometry. I had my own place in the Far Rockaway area of Queens, NY at the time. Does anyone know what happened to Soroban? Is he still alive? If so, is he ok? There's gotta be someone here who knows about Soroban.
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If you became friends then you know his real name. Knowing his name makes it possible to search the death notices in newspapers. I do know that he lived in the greater Boston area.
 
pka said:
If you became friends then you know his real name. Knowing his name makes it possible to search the death notices in newspapers. I do know that he lived in the greater Boston area.
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We were online friends, you know, math friends. I am talking 14 years ago. I forgot what I had for breakfast thus morning much less a person's name from long ago.
 
I think that while the professor has a point, that those are just stereotypes, in my academic and work experience, which spanned 4 or so decades, there is more than a little truth to the stereotype. At least with regard to tending to be loners and tending to be socially awkward. I suspect the one leads to the other.

It's not surprising that mathematicians tend to be loners. Math down in the trenches isn't generally cooperative effort. Now and then you come out of the trench and compare/share results with others working similar problems but when you're pushing the pencil, (or these days pounding the keyboard), you're most likely going to be doing it alone.

At University of Maryland, back in the 80s, I decided to pursue a BS in math as well as my engineering degree. Really the difference between engineers and mathematicians was quite stark. Occasionally comically so. There were a few math students who were just flat out weird to the point that conversation with them was very difficult and clearly unwanted (by them).

There was a Mathematics PhD student in the group house I lived one semester. It wasn't uncommon for him to be pacing the hall at 3am talking to himself. His body may have resided on Earth but his mind sure didn't. It was utterly impossible to have a conversation with him.

Now of course that's an extreme. But it's an extreme I never witnessed among engineering or even physics majors.

As an aside, the mathematicians I knew at work, did the same basic job as the engineers or physicists. Here's the problem, solve it. Very occasionally the mathematicians were able to pull something out of their hat that the engineers wouldn't have thought of that made the problem much more workable. The mathematicians tended to be better at hitting the literature and gleaning results needed than the engineers did. On the other hand engineers were much more able to find shortcuts and simplifying assumptions and had an overall "git er done" attitude than the mathematicians.
 
Romsek said:
I think that while the professor has a point, that those are just stereotypes, in my academic and work experience, which spanned 4 or so decades, there is more than a little truth to the stereotype. At least with regard to tending to be loners and tending to be socially awkward. I suspect the one leads to the other.

It's not surprising that mathematicians tend to be loners. Math down in the trenches isn't generally cooperative effort. Now and then you come out of the trench and compare/share results with others working similar problems but when you're pushing the pencil, (or these days pounding the keyboard), you're most likely going to be doing it alone.

At University of Maryland, back in the 80s, I decided to pursue a BS in math as well as my engineering degree. Really the difference between engineers and mathematicians was quite stark. Occasionally comically so. There were a few math students who were just flat out weird to the point that conversation with them was very difficult and clearly unwanted (by them).

There was a Mathematics PhD student in the group house I lived one semester. It wasn't uncommon for him to be pacing the hall at 3am talking to himself. His body may have resided on Earth but his mind sure didn't. It was utterly impossible to have a conversation with him.

Now of course that's an extreme. But it's an extreme I never witnessed among engineering or even physics majors.

As an aside, the mathematicians I knew at work, did the same basic job as the engineers or physicists. Here's the problem, solve it. Very occasionally the mathematicians were able to pull something out of their hat that the engineers wouldn't have thought of that made the problem much more workable. The mathematicians tended to be better at hitting the literature and gleaning results needed than the engineers did. On the other hand engineers were much more able to find shortcuts and simplifying assumptions and had an overall "git er done" attitude than the mathematicians.
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Compared to Physicists, mathematicians are sane. The average Phd Physicists is off the walk crazy. I know many mathematicians and they are all sane except for the number theorist--they go crazy over time.
 
Romsek said:
I think that while the professor has a point, that those are just stereotypes, in my academic and work experience, which spanned 4 or so decades, there is more than a little truth to the stereotype. At least with regard to tending to be loners and tending to be socially awkward. I suspect the one leads to the other.

It's not surprising that mathematicians tend to be loners. Math down in the trenches isn't generally cooperative effort. Now and then you come out of the trench and compare/share results with others working similar problems but when you're pushing the pencil, (or these days pounding the keyboard), you're most likely going to be doing it alone.

At University of Maryland, back in the 80s, I decided to pursue a BS in math as well as my engineering degree. Really the difference between engineers and mathematicians was quite stark. Occasionally comically so. There were a few math students who were just flat out weird to the point that conversation with them was very difficult and clearly unwanted (by them).

There was a Mathematics PhD student in the group house I lived one semester. It wasn't uncommon for him to be pacing the hall at 3am talking to himself. His body may have resided on Earth but his mind sure didn't. It was utterly impossible to have a conversation with him.

Now of course that's an extreme. But it's an extreme I never witnessed among engineering or even physics majors.

As an aside, the mathematicians I knew at work, did the same basic job as the engineers or physicists. Here's the problem, solve it. Very occasionally the mathematicians were able to pull something out of their hat that the engineers wouldn't have thought of that made the problem much more workable. The mathematicians tended to be better at hitting the literature and gleaning results needed than the engineers did. On the other hand engineers were much more able to find shortcuts and simplifying assumptions and had an overall "git er done" attitude than the mathematicians.
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I reply in detail when time allows. Thank you for your reply.
 
Jomo said:
Compared to Physicists, mathematicians are sane. The average Phd Physicists is off the walk crazy. I know many mathematicians and they are all sane except for the number theorist--they go crazy over time.
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I didn't encounter that at all. The physicists I worked with were indistinguishable from the engineers.
 
Jomo said:
Compared to Physicists, mathematicians are sane. The average Phd Physicists is off the walk crazy. I know many mathematicians and they are all sane except for the number theorist--they go crazy over time.
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Thank you. It's good to know that my fellow Physicists are upholding their good name!

-Dan
 
Romsek said:
As an aside, the mathematicians I knew at work, did the same basic job as the engineers or physicists. Here's the problem, solve it. Very occasionally the mathematicians were able to pull something out of their hat that the engineers wouldn't have thought of that made the problem much more workable. The mathematicians tended to be better at hitting the literature and gleaning results needed than the engineers did. On the other hand engineers were much more able to find shortcuts and simplifying assumptions and had an overall "git er done" attitude than the mathematicians.
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The problem that I saw with engineers majors as a student was that the engineer majors were engineer majors and not math majors. Math majors try to understand the math at a higher level than other non math majors. This is not against engineering majors. Yes, engineers just want to get the problem done while mathematicians would also prefer to truly understand what is going on, even after solving the problem. Engineers might not care about this at all.
When I was an undergraduate student, my friend Nixon (a math major) and I were about to take differential equations. We had no idea that the engineering students did not like us. A group of them approached us and stated very clearly that they were going to cream us in this course. Nixon and I just laughed at them. In the end, Nixon and I got our A's and the rest of the class got no higher than a B-. I still wonder why the students approached us.
 
Jomo said:
The problem that I saw with engineers majors as a student was that the engineer majors were engineer majors and not math majors. Math majors try to understand the math at a higher level than other non math majors. This is not against engineering majors. Yes, engineers just want to get the problem done while mathematicians would also prefer to truly understand what is going on, even after solving the problem. Engineers might not care about this at all.
When I was an undergraduate student, my friend Nixon (a math major) and I were about to take differential equations. We had no idea that the engineering students did not like us. A group of them approached us and stated very clearly that they were going to cream us in this course. Nixon and I just laughed at them. In the end, Nixon and I got our A's and the rest of the class got no higher than a B-. I still wonder why the students approached us.
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I once had the opportunity in my Undergrad at Alfred University to work a problem solving session for Physics I. It was a course in the Physics curriculum but it was heavily populated by engineers. I noted quickly that they didn't want to find the equation and do the solution. They wanted to know how to solve specific problems to cover every possibility instead of learning the general method which could solve any of them. This thinking is alien to me. My studies have been drifting me toward Mathematical Physics over the last decade or so, so I can claim that I know how to do some Math the way Mathematicians do it rather than just approaching it like a Physicist. I will admit, though, that I still have a tendancy to approach problems without always checking to see if I can do things, such as taking limits inside of integrals without checking to see that I can actually do that.

-Dan
 
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