Would you rather take algebra or pre-calculous?

[lillybeth]

Would u rather take algebra or pre-calculous?

 

[daon2]

that was an accident, the last post, but answer my question please:

Would u rather take algebra or pre-calculous?

I do not like the "pre-calculus" course that I am teaching. It is half algebra and half trig, supposedly designed to prepare a student for calculus. Clearly a student should be proficient in these subjects before taking calculus (although how many actually are?), but if they haven't already been exposed (and recently) to algebra or trigonometry, it will feel like a rushed year of mathematics jammed into a few short months. Not much time for insightful tangents (no pun intended) or to digest the material.

One semester of algebra + One semester of trig will always be my recommendation for someone who wants to actually learn mathematics, and be able to concentrate on the concepts when taking Calculus, rather than "simplifying" things.

 

[JeffM]

that was an accident, the last post, but answer my question please:

Would u rather take algebra or pre-calculous?

You seem like a bright kid with a lot of will power, but not much patience. That makes giving an intelligent answer very hard.

What grade are you in?

How solid do you think your current knowledge of algebra is?

How bored do you get with stuff that is too easy?

How quickly do you give up on things that seem too hard?

What does your teacher recommend (or are you home schooled)?

How soon do you need to make a decision, or are you just curious?

I suspect that, in general, pre-calculus courses and advanced algebras course will overlap a lot, but that a pre-calculus course will deal with some abstract concepts that an algebra course will ignore or treat very lightly. So how is your capacity for grasping abstract concepts?

Personally, I believe all bright people should study a fair amount of mathematics, at least through calculus and statistics. They are used in all the natural sciences and in most of the social sciences so a weakness in mathematics acts as a barrier to many fields of study that would otherwise be open to bright kids. I specialized in history, sociology, and economics in school, and sociology requires some facility with statistics, and economics requires facility with all sorts of mathematics, particularly statistics and differential calculus. History, particularly cliometrics, is becoming more dependent on mathematics. Once out of school, my career was involved with computers and finance, and in both fields, knowledge of math can be very helpful. So, not having good mathematical training can be a problem in all sorts of unanticipated ways.

That seems to argue for taking pre-calculus, but you have a lot of time yet in your education, and calculus requires a solid foundation of algebra, trignometry, and analytic geometry. So if you are really struggling with algebra and have a choice between an advanced algebra course and pre-calculus, it may be better to take the algebra course so that when you do take calculus, you will be ready. Edit Having read the comment by daon, I lean more strongly to the notion that if a pre-calculus course just tries to speed up learning algebra and trigonometry, it is suitable only for those with a flair for math. The rest of us need to take our time to learn algebra and trig well at a natural pace.

My opinion only. Others may have different views (but if they differ from mine, they are OF COURSE wrong ).

 

[daon2]

Not all "pre-calculus" courses are created the same. I was only commenting on what I know to be the pre-calculus syllabus. A friend of mine who taught at different college had a lot more freedom and was able to explore concepts like mathematical induction and some fun geometry topics. Some colleges may even require it before taking a calculus course, but my experience was that a year of algebra and trigonometry was able to be substituted for it.

 

[MarkFL]

I was fortunate enough to experience the best of both worlds.:mrgreen:

In the spring of 1991, I was taking College Algebra. Late in the term, my professor approached me and invited me to attend a summer course in Analytic Trigonometry, normally at that time taken by students in between Calc I and Calc II. He told me he had already gotten permission from the administration to forego the prerequisite for me. He informed me it was the last time the course would be offered, as in the fall they would be introducing a new program whereby a course called Precalculus would replace the trig. course and would be taken before Calc I.

So, I jumped at the chance to take the trig. course during the summer, and then also enrolled in the Precalc course in the fall. In this course we did get to study functions more thoroughly than had been taught in the College Algebra course, as well as things like induction, sequences and series, partial fractions, etc.

 

[mmm4444bot]

My answer to your question is a function of multiple variables. :cool:

 

[lillybeth]

reply to Jeff:

You seem like a bright kid with a lot of will power, but not much patience. That makes giving an intelligent answer very hard.

What grade are you in?

How solid do you think your current knowledge of algebra is?

How bored do you get with stuff that is too easy?

How quickly do you give up on things that seem too hard?

What does your teacher recommend (or are you home schooled)?

How soon do you need to make a decision, or are you just curious?

I suspect that, in general, pre-calculus courses and advanced algebras course will overlap a lot, but that a pre-calculus course will deal with some abstract concepts that an algebra course will ignore or treat very lightly. So how is your capacity for grasping abstract concepts?

Personally, I believe all bright people should study a fair amount of mathematics, at least through calculus and statistics. They are used in all the natural sciences and in most of the social sciences so a weakness in mathematics acts as a barrier to many fields of study that would otherwise be open to bright kids. I specialized in history, sociology, and economics in school, and sociology requires some facility with statistics, and economics requires facility with all sorts of mathematics, particularly statistics and differential calculus. History, particularly cliometrics, is becoming more dependent on mathematics. Once out of school, my career was involved with computers and finance, and in both fields, knowledge of math can be very helpful. So, not having good mathematical training can be a problem in all sorts of unanticipated ways.

That seems to argue for taking pre-calculus, but you have a lot of time yet in your education, and calculus requires a solid foundation of algebra, trignometry, and analytic geometry. So if you are really struggling with algebra and have a choice between an advanced algebra course and pre-calculus, it may be better to take the algebra course so that when you do take calculus, you will be ready. Edit Having read the comment by daon, I lean more strongly to the notion that if a pre-calculus course just tries to speed up learning algebra and trigonometry, it is suitable only for those with a flair for math. The rest of us need to take our time to learn algebra and trig well at a natural pace.

My opinion only. Others may have different views (but if they differ from mine, they are OF COURSE wrong ).

I am in 7th grade, and I am homeschooled on the internet for the moment. (i will go to school next year though)

My current knowledge of Algebra is a little shaky, but my mom says I'm getting better.

I don't get to bored with stuff that is too easy, it's better than the stuff that is too hard.


I give up on stuff thats too hard sometimes, but only when I've tried a lot and am almost positive I cant find the answer.

I havnt been able to ask my mom yet, but my grandpa suggest just algebra.

I have a while to find out which one to take, but I might have to take pre-calculous next year. (for me, its terrifying!)

 

[lillybeth]

reply to mmm4444bot

My answer to your question is a function of multiple variables. :cool:

Huh? MMM4444bot, did you know, that you dont have to answer everything in mathmatical terms?

 

[lillybeth]

I was fortunate enough to experience the best of both worlds.:mrgreen:

In the spring of 1991, I was taking College Algebra. Late in the term, my professor approached me and invited me to attend a summer course in Analytic Trigonometry, normally at that time taken by students in between Calc I and Calc II. He told me he had already gotten permission from the administration to forego the prerequisite for me. He informed me it was the last time the course would be offered, as in the fall they would be introducing a new program whereby a course called Precalculus would replace the trig. course and would be taken before Calc I.

So, I jumped at the chance to take the trig. course during the summer, and then also enrolled in the Precalc course in the fall. In this course we did get to study functions more thoroughly than had been taught in the College Algebra course, as well as things like induction, sequences and series, partial fractions, etc.

Did you enjoy trig? (or does anybody, no offense if you do)

 

[JeffM]

I am in 7th grade, and I am homeschooled on the internet for the moment. (i will go to school next year though)

My current knowledge of Algebra is a little shaky, but my mom says I'm getting better.

I don't get to bored with stuff that is too easy, it's better than the stuff that is too hard.


I give up on stuff thats too hard sometimes, but only when I've tried a lot and am almost positive I cant find the answer.

I havnt been able to ask my mom yet, but my grandpa suggest just algebra.

I have a while to find out which one to take, but I might have to take pre-calculous next year. (for me, its terrifying!)

I truly doubt that they are going to move into calculus in the 9th grade so pre-calculus is probably a high-falutin name for a more accelerated algebra course, maybe with some work on transcendental functions (meaning for now trigonometric, logarithmic, and exponential functions). If that is correct, you are plenty bright enough to master that. Moreover, a sensible school will likely give you some placement exams: schools do not like to see students sink screaming below the waves. And as I said before, you have plenty of time to learn calculus; make sure you know algebra first.

Now I was in middle school back in the 50's so I am far from current on what modern math curricula look like, and I know that they introduce some basic algebra much earlier today than they did back when I rode a mastadon to school. So they may introduce some of the concepts that will be helpful in calculus (like the concept of a function) earlier than they used to, but I am highly confident that you have no need to be terrified.

If you remain concerned, find out the name of the text books that they use in the two courses and tell them to us. Someone here can probably dope out how different the two courses are from the text books.

PS Trig used to be arduous because we did not have calculators and the required arithmetic was messy. I doubt you will find it all that hard when you get there: it is just about some special functions and their interrelationships, and you already know what a function is.

 

[MarkFL]

Did you enjoy trig? (or does anybody, no offense if you do)

Yes, I thoroughly enjoyed it and a sound foundation in trig. is essential for further studies in math and physics.

At the time, I was a computer programmer, and knowing something about trigonometry and coordinate geometry is a great aid to graphics programming.

 

[lillybeth]

Cool MarkFL

Yes, I thoroughly enjoyed it and a sound foundation in trig. is essential for further studies in math and physics.

At the time, I was a computer programmer, and knowing something about trigonometry and coordinate geometry is a great aid to graphics programming.

Cool! I hope that once I get a little better at it that I will like math stuff too.

 

[lillybeth]

Thanks Jeff

I truly doubt that they are going to move into calculus in the 9th grade so pre-calculus is probably a high-falutin name for a more accelerated algebra course, maybe with some work on transcendental functions (meaning for now trigonometric, logarithmic, and exponential functions). If that is correct, you are plenty bright enough to master that. Moreover, a sensible school will likely give you some placement exams: schools do not like to see students sink screaming below the waves. And as I said before, you have plenty of time to learn calculus; make sure you know algebra first.

Now I was in middle school back in the 50's so I am far from current on what modern math curricula look like, and I know that they introduce some basic algebra much earlier today than they did back when I rode a mastadon to school. So they may introduce some of the concepts that will be helpful in calculus (like the concept of a function) earlier than they used to, but I am highly confident that you have no need to be terrified.

If you remain concerned, find out the name of the text books that they use in the two courses and tell them to us. Someone here can probably dope out how different the two courses are from the text books.

PS Trig used to be arduous because we did not have calculators and the required arithmetic was messy. I doubt you will find it all that hard when you get there: it is just about some special functions and their interrelationships, and you already know what a function is.

I'm thankful for the help that you've given me, (as well as everyone else who has posted here) and my mom thinks that I will have a placement test too. Thanks Y'all (!), I will continue to talk it over with my mom.