increasing/decreasing function?

apple2357

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I have done some google searches but its getting me more confused...

Is y=x^3 an increasing function or considered an increasing function except at x=0?

In which case is the definition of increasing ' non-decreasing'?

Is y=4 increasing then? Or do we say something like y=2x is strictly increasing but y=x^3 as increasing ?

Please help settle this with some examples!
 
Just to say, i am thinking about it in terms of the gradient at various points, so if dy/dx>=0 thats increasing and if dy/dx<=0 then decreasing?
 
I have done some google searches but its getting me more confused...

Is y=x^3 an increasing function or considered an increasing function except at x=0?

In which case is the definition of increasing ' non-decreasing'?

Is y=4 increasing then? Or do we say something like y=2x is strictly increasing but y=x^3 as increasing ?

Please help settle this with some examples!
Let [imath]S[/imath] be an interval in the real line.

If you will take any interval [imath]S[/imath] in the function [imath]f(x) = x^3[/imath] not including [imath]x = 0[/imath], then [imath]f[/imath] is a strictly increasing function because [imath]f'(x) > 0[/imath] for each [imath]x \in S[/imath].

If you will take any interval [imath]S[/imath] in the function [imath]f(x) = x^3[/imath] including [imath]x = 0[/imath], then [imath]f[/imath] is a weakly increasing function because [imath]f'(x) \geq 0[/imath] for each [imath]x \in S[/imath].
 
"Increasing function" is not defined in terms of derivatives:

By the proper definition, f(x) = x^3 is strictly increasing for all x.

And f(x) = 4 fits the definition of increasing (though not strictly increasing). Clearly "non-decreasing" is a better name!
 
Professor Dave, with your knowledge and experience AND with the enforcements of whatever theorems and definitions you follow:

Would you rather say: the function [imath]f(x) = x^3[/imath]

1. is increasing on the interval [imath](-\infty,\infty)[/imath]

Or

2. is increasing on the interval [imath](-\infty,0) \ \text{U} \ (0,\infty)[/imath]

?

And why?
 
Professor Dave, with your knowledge and experience AND with the enforcements of whatever theorems and definitions you follow:

Would you rather say: the function [imath]f(x) = x^3[/imath]

1. is increasing on the interval [imath](-\infty,\infty)[/imath]

Or

2. is increasing on the interval [imath](-\infty,0) \ \text{U} \ (0,\infty)[/imath]

?

And why?
What did I say? I gave an answer and a reason! (and not based on my own authority or great knowledge, but a source). Did you read the source, or look it up elsewhere?

Actually, you've improved on what I said, because my "for all x" could be taken in the wrong way. I discussed essentially the same issue here, pointing out that there are really two different concepts, and therefore two different ways to answer such questions, namely "increasing at a point" vs "increasing on an interval". We're discussing the latter at the moment.
 
What did I say? I gave an answer and a reason! (and not based on my own authority or great knowledge, but a source). Did you read the source, or look it up
No you did not. It was for the OP. I wanted you to choose one of the intervals I have written. And yes I did read the source. And why do you think that my reply in post #2 is not based on a source?

Anyway, I expected you to say both answers are correct. Which one to choose is dependent on the context and who is testing you! Although, I don't like the first interval!

And after reading the math doctors website, this confirms what I was saying as
Doctor Jerry replied (in part): Different books, teachers, and mathematicians use slightly different definitions of increasing functions, but this is not a matter of much consequence as long as one is consistent.

That was one part. The second part is that your main source was Mrs. Alpha which goes with the interval [imath](-\infty,\infty)[/imath] in my example in post #5. This answer I don't like because all theorems I have been taught go with [imath](-\infty,0) \ \text{U} \ (0,\infty)[/imath]. Also it does not make sense if you will think of it in terms of the derivative!

"increasing at a point" vs "increasing on an interval". We're discussing the latter at the moment.
And don't be ambiguous. I am talking about any point, [imath]p[/imath], on any interval where [imath]f'(p) = 0[/imath]. Would you include it on the interval or not?

"Increasing function" is not defined in terms of derivatives:
It is in fact defined in terms of the derivative as I said in my post #2. And it was extracted from a theorem. I do not care if you will call it a weak theorem.
 
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I'm a little confused by what you say here.

Are you saying that it is ambiguous, or that it is not? I think we agree that it is taught in different ways, so it is necessary to ask about the context in order to properly answer the question (which neither of us has actually done).

And are you denying my demonstration that the term is defined without reference to derivatives (and that whatever is said about increasing functions in the context of derivatives is the result of a theorem rather than the definition? Or is that what you are also saying?

I wanted you to choose one of the intervals I have written.
Technically, your second choice is not an interval, but a union of intervals.

If the question asked "On what interval(s) is the function increasing?", I would accept the first answer (if the context uses the definition directly), or the answer "It is increasing on two intervals, [imath](-\infty,0)[/imath] and [imath](0,\infty)[/imath]", if the class used the calculus version.
And why do you think that my reply in post #2 [3?] is not based on a source?
Because you haven't mentioned a source. I'd like to see it.
 
Thanks for all your responses. Its been very helpful.
So, can you answer our implied question? What is your context? How was "increasing function" defined for you? What specific question were you trying to answer, and what would you do with the answer?

You said you had googled and were confused. Now you know why: Google doesn't know your context, and will give answers to different versions of the question, from different sorts of people, together. This is why I don't recommend Google as a "teacher". One good, consistent source is far better.
 
OK. So i saw this solution in a textbook:
IMG_8342.jpeg


But then i was exploring material online and i came across y=x^3. This was called an increasing function, despite having a gradient of zero at x=0. So hence the original post.
 
Clearly your context is calculus; they don't include the endpoint as part of the interval because they are using the derivative. On the other hand, what you found online may be either from an algebraic perspective, where the derivative isn't considered, or from a calculus context where they nevertheless use what I consider the proper definitions. In that context, it would be appropriate to say that [imath]x^2-6x[/imath] is increasing for [imath]x\ge3[/imath], that is, on interval [imath][3.\infty)[/imath] rather than merely [imath](3.\infty)[/imath].

Some authors will specifically ask for the "largest open interval" on which a function increases, to avoid issues. My page that I referred to earlier discusses this sort of distinction.
 
Technically, your second choice is not an interval, but a union of intervals.

If the question asked "On what interval(s) is the function increasing?", I would accept the first answer (if the context uses the definition directly), or the answer "It is increasing on two intervals, [imath](-\infty,0)[/imath] and [imath](0,\infty)[/imath]", if the class used the calculus version.
This was supposed to be your answer in your post #6, and because it wasn't I quoted some of your reply as ambiguous as you were discussing what you have replied to the OP which was not directly related to my post #5.

I'm a little confused by what you say here.
Because you did not answer directly what I have asked you, things went wild.

And are you denying my demonstration that the term is defined without reference to derivatives (and that whatever is said about increasing functions in the context of derivatives is the result of a theorem rather than the definition? Or is that what you are also saying?
I just meant that according to my reply in post #3, the derivative was involved and the wording of post #3 was taken from a theorem. So, this increasing function was defined in terms of the gradient as the OP was asking in his post #2.

Because you haven't mentioned a source. I'd like to see it.
I did not mention a source because the theorem is trivial and I thought that you will recognize it from the context of my reply in post #3.

Here is a source for someone who has used it. It might be not the kind of source that you wanna see, but for me it serves the purpose of my claim.

I prefer this source because the guy Toby has written the theorem more precisely. Just search for the name Toby in this page and will go directly to where he has written the theorems, one of them is ours.
 
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Here is a source for someone who has used it. It might be not the kind of source that you wanna see, but for me it serves the purpose of my claim.

I prefer this source because the guy Toby has written the theorem more precisely. Just search for the name Toby in this page and will go directly to where he has written the theorems, one of them is ours.
Now I'm really baffled. Your post #3 seems to insist that [imath]y=x^3[/imath] is not [strictly] increasing on an interval including 0; but this page agrees with me that it is, and that the definition of an increasing function on an interval is not based on the derivative. (Keep in mind, again, that I have not said there is no theorem about the relationship to the derivative, only that the proper definition is not the theorem.)

There's some lack of communication here. I fully agree with what is said on this page, so if you think I disagree with it, you are misunderstanding someone. And if you do agree with me, you're not making that very clear.

In this page, the OP, Maddy, is confusing the idea of increasing on an interval (which is what the teacher was talking about) and the idea of increasing at a single point. She's right that the function is not increasing at zero, but wrong about intervals. The teacher agrees with me.

The first answer, by M.W., agrees fully with my perspective, as does the second.

The third answer, by Toby Bartels, starts with the definitions, just as I understand them, and then moves from the actual question to the larger question of the relationship to the derivative, stating theorems. He emphasizes, rightly, that the converse of his first theorem is false, and is where Maddy is stumbling. This theorem does not imply that [imath]y=x^3[/imath] is not increasing on an interval that includes 0.

I just meant that according to my reply in post #3, the derivative was involved and the wording of post #3 was taken from a theorem. So, this increasing function was defined in terms of the gradient as the OP was asking in his post #2.

This is where we disagree; and I agree with Toby, whether you do or not! "Increasing" is not defined in terms of the gradient (derivative). We can define a function increasing at a point by the derivative, but in post #3 you were talking about an interval. That is also what the question appears to be about (as in the Stack Exchange question).
 
A function is NOT increasing/decreasing/non-increasing/non decreasing at a single point. A function might be increasing/decreasing/non-increasing/non decreasing on an interval which might be quite small but an interval non-the-less.
You like using derivatives. If f(x)=x^3, then f'(x) = 3x^2>0 except at one point, where the function f'(x) equals 0. That is perfectly fine and one can say that f(x)=x^3 is strictly increasing.
As I noticed, Dr Peterson said that the definition of a strictly increasing function is when f(x)>f(y) whenever x>y. Your function x^3 lives up to that! There is NO interval where this function is constant!!
 
Now I'm really baffled. Your post #3 seems to insist that [imath]y=x^3[/imath] is not [strictly] increasing on an interval including 0;
Absolutely right.

Your first reply by providing the Wolfram page suggests that you don't agree with my first reply. So post #5 was created. And when you kept holding with what was written in the Wolfram page also suggests that you don't agree with the theorem or (you don't know there is a theorem).

I don't like the Wolfram page because it does not include (or talk about) the case where [imath]f'(p) = 0[/imath] while that was the most important part for the OP.

Now let us clear up the agreement between us. If you disagree with post #3, I disagree with you.

I don't care about what the definition or the theorem is calling an increasing function, strictly, weakly, or whatever. My main point is that I don't agree with [imath](-\infty,\infty)[/imath] as the increasing interval for the function [imath]f(x) = x^3[/imath]. My post #3 was just to show the OP that the function [imath]f(x) = x^3[/imath] can be called an increasing function even when its derivative is zero at zero.

A function is NOT increasing/decreasing/non-increasing/non decreasing at a single point. A function might be increasing/decreasing/non-increasing/non decreasing on an interval which might be quite small but an interval non-the-less.
You like using derivatives. If f(x)=x^3, then f'(x) = 3x^2>0 except at one point, where the function f'(x) equals 0. That is perfectly fine and one can say that f(x)=x^3 is strictly increasing.
As I noticed, Dr Peterson said that the definition of a strictly increasing function is when f(x)>f(y) whenever x>y. Your function x^3 lives up to that! There is NO interval where this function is constant!!
I don't really understand if this was for me or for the OP!
 
I surely don't want to get involved in this argument, but I think a clarification is needed to avoid confusing the OP or other readers.

A function is increasing (we call it monotone increasing) if [imath] x\gt y [/imath] implies [imath]f(x)\geq f(y). [/imath] A function is strictly increasing (we call it strictly monotone increasing) if [imath] x\gt y [/imath] implies [imath]f(x)\gt f(y). [/imath] These terms also apply to functions that are not differentiable. Now what happens at [imath] x=0 \,\mathrm{?}[/imath] For [imath] \varepsilon>0 [/imath] we get [imath] f(\varepsilon)>f(0)>f(-\varepsilon) [/imath] no matter how small [imath] \varepsilon [/imath] is. That means that [imath] f(x)=x^3 [/imath] is strictly increasing on its entire domain. Differentiability is not of relevance here.

[imath] \left. \dfrac{d}{dx}\right|_{x=0}x^3=0 [/imath] only allows us to say that the differentiability criterion is insufficient to conclude something in this case, as the comparison between [imath] x^2 [/imath] and [imath] x^3 [/imath] shows. Strictly monotone functions have an inverse function, and [imath] f(x)=x^3 [/imath] has one: [imath] f^{-1}(y)=\operatorname{sgn}(y)\cdot \sqrt[3]{|y|} .[/imath] Since it is only a necessary condition for monotony, it cannot count as a proof for strictly monotony, but at least as a kind of evidence.

Only in case of a continuously differentiable function [imath] f(x) [/imath] at a point [imath] x_0 [/imath] with, say [imath] f'(x_0)=c>0, [/imath] we can use continuous differentiability since [imath] f'(x_0)[/imath] remains positive in a neighborhood of [imath] x_0. [/imath] If [imath] f'(x_0)=0 [/imath] we cannot decide what happens left or right from [imath] x_0. [/imath]
 
At the risk of creating another fight... i think i will try and summarise what i have learnt (!), thinking about my original post:

Using the fundamental definitions from algebra ( wolfram source) f(x)=x^3 is an strictly increasing function ( but not just increasing) for all values of x

But using the tool of derivatives, f(x)=x^3 is increasing for all values except x=0

By contrast, f(x)= 2x is an increasing function from the definition. It is also increasing from the derivative test.

However, f(x)= 4 ( say) is also an increasing function (!), from definitions) but neither from the derivative test.


I am aware that perhaps oversimplifies it...

I think i also didn't appreciate that the derivatives approach was not the definition of increasing/decreasing. I assumed it was. ( the textbook i used defined increasing/decreasing in terms of derivatives)
 
At the risk of creating another fight... i think i will try and summarise what i have learnt (!), thinking about my original post:

Using the fundamental definitions from algebra ( wolfram source) f(x)=x^3 is an strictly increasing function ( but not just increasing) for all values of x
Strictly increasing implies increasing. "Increasing at" doesn't make any sense. Increasing implies that a comparison before-after took place. This requires two points for a comparison.

If you talk about a point where the first derivative vanishes, then it is just that: the first derivative is zero. It has nothing to do with monotone behavior. [imath] g(x)=x^2 [/imath] and [imath] f(x)=x^3 [/imath] have both vanishing derivatives at [imath] x=0. [/imath] However, [imath] g(x) [/imath] turns from strictly decreasing to strictly increasing in a neighborhood of [imath] x=0 [/imath] whereas [imath] f(x) [/imath] remains strictly increasing.

But using the tool of derivatives, f(x)=x^3 is increasing for all values except x=0
No. See my comment above. The two terms "increasing" and "derivative" have nothing directly to do with each other. There are two theorems that connect the two, but they are irrelevant here.

1.) If a function has a local extremum, minimum or maximum, then the derivative - so the function is differentiable - vanishes there. As you can see, [imath] g(x) [/imath] instantaneously switches from strictly decreasing to strictly decreasing at its local maximum, but that does not mean that you can speak of "increasing" or "non-increasing" "at". [imath] f(x) [/imath] has also a vanishing derivative at [imath] x=0 [/imath] but it has no local extremum there and keeps being strictly increasing.

A local extremum of a differentiable function switches from decreasing to increasing like [imath] f(x) [/imath] or the other way around like [imath] -f(x) [/imath] would do. But that doesn't mean you can speak of monotone behavior "at". We need a comparison of two arbitrary points and their function values. The derivative only allows us in a very limited sense to make statements about function values.

2.) If, and this is a crucial condition, if a function is differentiable at [imath] x=x_0 [/imath] and its derivative [imath] f'(x) [/imath] is continuous at [imath] x=x_0 [/imath] and its derivative at [imath] x=x_0 [/imath] is positive, say [imath] f'(x_0)=c>0 [/imath] then [imath] f(x) [/imath] is strictly increasing in a neighborhood around [imath] x_0. [/imath] This is a local statement about an area of the domain where [imath] f'(x)>0. [/imath] Such a neighborhood can actually be very small and does not allow any global statements. Continuity of [imath] f'(x) [/imath] guarantees that [imath] f'(x)>0 [/imath] a little bit left and a little bit right from [imath] x_0. [/imath] Within this neighborhood of [imath] x_0 [/imath] we have a positive slope and thus an increasing function.

If you want to use this for the entire domain, you have to patch all these neighborhoods. That will only work if [imath] f'(x)>0 [/imath] on the entire domain. Hence a point with [imath] f'(x_0)=0 [/imath] makes this criterion inapplicable: the argument does not work anymore. The fact, that the argument does not work anymore cannot be used to conclude anything. E.g. [imath] g(x)=x^2 [/imath] changes its behavior at [imath] x=0 [/imath] whereas [imath] f(x)=x^3 [/imath] does not change its behavior. A conclusion by using the derivatives is no longer possible. And the examples show that both outcomes are possible.


By contrast, f(x)= 2x is an increasing function from the definition. It is also increasing from the derivative test.

You better forget the "derivative test". It is confusing, off-topic, and useless if the derivative changes signs or vanishes. It also suggests that monotone behavior and differentiability were connected. They are not. Monotone behavior is defined by pure comparison of two values [imath] f(x) [/imath] and [imath] f(y) [/imath] where [imath] x>y. [/imath] A function doesn't even need to be continuos, let alone differentiable to be monotone increasing (or decreasing). The function
[math] x \longmapsto \begin{cases} 2x &\text{ if }x>1\\2x-2&\text{ if }x\leq 1 \end{cases} [/math]is strictly monotone increasing but not even continuous.

However, f(x)= 4 ( say) is also an increasing function (!), from definitions) but neither from the derivative test.
It is monotone increasing since [imath] 4=f(x)\geq f(y)=4 [/imath] for all [imath] x>y. [/imath] Note that it is monotone decreasing, too, by the same argument. However, it is not strictly monotone increasing since [imath] 4=f(x)\not\gt f(y)=4 .[/imath]

Again, forget the derivative. You need continuous differentiability and a strictly positive (or negative) derivative everywhere only to conclude the obvious.

I am aware that perhaps oversimplifies it...

I think i also didn't appreciate that the derivatives approach was not the definition of increasing/decreasing. I assumed it was. ( the textbook i used defined increasing/decreasing in terms of derivatives)

The reason why I am (strictly) opposing to connect differentiability and monotone behavior has a deep-reaching reason!

Monotone behavior is a global statement. It is a statement about a part of the domain, not necessarily the entire domain, but nevertheless a global statement, in the sense of not being local.

Differentiability is a local phenomenon. It is a statement about a location and its direct neighborhood. E.g. [imath] x\longmapsto 1/x [/imath] is differentiable at [imath] x=0.00000000000000000000001 [/imath] but this ranges only [imath] 0.000000000000000000000009999... [/imath] to the left before it becomes not differentiable. This is very local and far from comparing the function at two different points.

If you want to connect local and global behavior, you will find yourself right at the center of differential geometry where those local neighborhoods are patched to make a global statement.

To answer your original question:
a) Forget the phrase "increasing at".
b) Forget differentiability.
c) Say we have [imath] x>y [/imath] and [imath] x=y+c [/imath] for some positive number [imath] c>0. [/imath] Then
[math] f(x)=x^3=(y+c)^3=y^3+3yc^2+3y^2c+c^3=y^3+3yc(c+y)+c^3=y^3+3xyc+c^3 [/math]The RHS is greater than [imath] f(y)=y^3 [/imath] if [imath] x [/imath] and [imath] y [/imath] have the same sign. Let us assume that [imath] y<0 [/imath] and [imath] x>0. [/imath] In this case [imath] f(x)=x^3>0>y^3=f(y), [/imath] too. Hence [imath] f(x)>f(y) [/imath] in all cases and [imath] f(x)=x^3 [/imath] is strictly increasing. We don't need a derivative and have covered the entire domain without bothering the vanishing slope at [imath] 0. [/imath]

For the case you insist on using the derivative to answer such questions about monotony, make sure the derivative is continuous and has no zeros anywhere. Otherwise, it cannot be used to make any conclusion.
 
Using the fundamental definitions from algebra ( wolfram source) f(x)=x^3 is an strictly increasing function ( but not just increasing) for all values of x

I think i also didn't appreciate that the derivatives approach was not the definition of increasing/decreasing. I assumed it was. ( the textbook i used defined increasing/decreasing in terms of derivatives)

The important point, I think, is that many [?] calculus books talk about increasing functions with such an emphasis on the derivative that they fail to point out that they are not actually defining such functions, but applying a theorem. Or, if they do start out that way, it is easy for students to miss the distinction, because all the exercises they do are about the derivative.

It might be helpful if we could look at your own book and see what it says; in the absence of that, I'll take a look at an online book,


This is just the first one that came up when I searched for the topic.

This book does start with the actual definition:

1731289631093.png

Note, by the way, that strictly increasing is a stronger condition than merely "increasing"; if it is strictly increasing, then it can also be called increasing. You seem to have that backward. A merely increasing function (also called "weakly increasing") could be constant over some intervals, whereas a strictly increasing function can't.

Then, after discussing how this relates to slope at individual points, they state a theorem:

1731275128257.png

This tells you that if the derivative is positive everywhere, or (see the Note) if it is positive everywhere except for a finite number of places, then you can conclude that it is increasing on that interval. This is not the definition; it is one way to determine whether a function is increasing.

But then they provide a procedure that masks all this:

1731289801759.png

In the following example, they say, "Find intervals on which f is increasing or decreasing". Their answer, in part is that the function is increasing on [imath](1/3,\infty)[/imath]. This is an interval on which the derivative is positive; they chose not to include 1/3, where the derivative is zero, so they don't confuse you with details by saying its increasing on [imath][1/3,\infty)[/imath] -- though that is, in fact, true! As I point out in my article that I referred to previously, it seems to be a common convention to talk only about open intervals in this context, presumably to avoid getting into this issue.

My point is that, although this book is careful to say only what is true, they are not writing for mathematicians, and so don't try to say everything that is true, which leaves some things unsaid! They don't leave you knowing what to say about [imath]x^3[/imath] -- because that's not important for applications most people will ever see. So I don't blame them.

Your book may be similar, or it may skip to the procedure and never actually give either a definition, or a theorem that distinguishes between a sufficient condition and a necessary condition. So I don't blame you for not seeing it!
 
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