calculus/related rates

roadrunner

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I need some help with this problem. I am not getting the right answer.

A solution is passing through a conical filter 24 in deep and 16 in across the top, into a cylindrical vessel of diameter 12 in. At what rate is the level of the solution in the cylinder rising if, when the depth of the solution in the filter is 12 in, its level is falling at the rate 1 in/min? The answer given is 4/9 in/min

Thanks.
 
I'll give this a shot. There's plenty of places for error.

The volume of the cone is V=\(\displaystyle \frac{1}{3}{\pi}x^{2}y\)

If we differentiate both sides with respect to t, the right side will involve dx/dt.

Since we have no direct info on dx/dt, we should eliminate it by using similar

triangles.

\(\displaystyle \frac{x}{y}=\frac{8}{24}\) or \(\displaystyle x=\frac{y}{3}\).

We substitute and simplify and arrive at \(\displaystyle \frac{\pi}{27}y^{3}\)

\(\displaystyle \frac{dV}{dt}=\frac{\pi}{9}y^{2}\frac{dy}{dt}\)

Subbing in our given rates:

\(\displaystyle \frac{\pi}{9}(12)^{2}(-1)

=-16{\pi} in^{3}/min.\)

Since the volume is leaving the cone at this rate it must be entering the cylinder at the same rate or \(\displaystyle 16{\pi} in^{3}/min.\)


\(\displaystyle V={\pi}x^{2}y\) is the volume of the cylinder.

We must find \(\displaystyle \frac{dy}{dt}\) given \(\displaystyle \frac{dV}{dt}=16{\pi}.\)

Since the radius of the cylinder is 6" we have \(\displaystyle \frac{dV}{dt}=36{\pi}\frac{dy}{dt}\)

\(\displaystyle 16{\pi}=36{\pi}\frac{dy}{dt}\)

\(\displaystyle \frac{dy}{dt}=\frac{4}{9} in/min.\)
 
Hello, roadrunner!

This is a tricky problem . . . with a number of "stages".
. . No wonder you had difficulty.

A solution is passing through a conical filter 24 in deep and 16 in across the top,
into a cylindrical vessel of diameter 12 in.
At what rate is the level of the solution in the cylinder rising if, when the depth of the solution in the filter is 12 in,
its level is falling at the rate 1 in/min? The answer given is 4/9 in/min.
The radius of the cylindrical vessel is \(\displaystyle 6\text{ in.}\)

The volume of solution in the cylindrical vessel is: .\(\displaystyle V \:= \:\pi r^2h \:= \:\pi\cdot6^2h \:= \:36\pi h\text{ in}^3\)

. . Then: .\(\displaystyle \frac{dV}{dt} \:= \:36\pi\left(\frac{dh}{dt}\right)\quad\Rightarrow\quad \frac{dh}{dt} \:= \:\frac{1}{36\pi}\left(\frac{dV}{dt}\right)\) [1]

So if we knew \(\displaystyle \frac{dV}{dt}\) (how fast the solution is entering the cylinder), we'd be done now.


Now we must find \(\displaystyle \frac{dV}{dt}\), how fast the solution is <u>leaving</u> the conical filter.
Code:
                    8
      -   * - - -+- - - *
      |    \     |     /
      |     \----+----/
   24 |      \:::|:r:/       Side view of conical filter
      |       \ h|::/
      |        \:|:/
      |         \|/
      -          *

The volume of solution in the cone is: .\(\displaystyle V \:= \:\frac{1}{3}\pi r^2h\)

From the similar right triangles: .\(\displaystyle \frac{r}{h} \ = \ \frac{8}{24}\quad\Rightarrow\quad r \ = \ \frac{h}{3}\)

Then we have: .\(\displaystyle V \:= \:\frac{1}{3}\pi\left(\frac{h}{3}\right)^2h \:= \:\frac{\pi}{27}h^3\)

. . Hence: .\(\displaystyle \frac{dV}{dt} \:= \:\frac{\pi}{9}h^2\left(\frac{dh}{dt}\right)\)

We are told that, when \(\displaystyle h = 12,\;\frac{dh}{dt} = -1\text{ in/min.}\)

. . Then: .\(\displaystyle \frac{dV}{dt} \:= \:\frac{\pi}{9}(12^2)(-1) \;= \;-16\pi\;\text{in}^3\text{/min.}\)

There! . . . The solution is leaving the filter and entering the cylinder at \(\displaystyle 16\pi\text{ in}^3\text{/min.}\)


Substitute into [1]: .\(\displaystyle \frac{dh}{dt} \;= \;\frac{1}{36\pi}(16\pi) \;= \;\frac{4}{9}\text{ in/min.}\)


[Edit: Too fast for me, Galactus!]
 
The fact I arrived at the same answer as you makes me feel a little empowered.

A blind squirrel finds an acorn once in a while.
 
Thank you galactus and soroban. I will look these over and let you know if I have any further questions if that's ok. I really appreciate your help.

I'm sure I'll be back. . . . :)
 
Here's what I did wrong - I used 16 instead of 8 in the first ration, a very careless error. I also get a little confused about the signs. For example, I also got a negative answer but neglected to understand that it would become positive for the cylinder. I did understand to set the volume derivatives equal to each other.

Thanks again.
 
what I find of interest is that if we had 2 cylindars, one of radius 4 inchs and a second of 6 inchs, as one went down by 1 inch per minute the second would increase by 4^2/6^2 inchs per minute or 16/36 inchs per minute
delta height = 4/9 inchs per minute

I believe the answer to your problem is not 4/9 in/min but 1/3 of this

Volume of cylindar V=1/3 pi r^2 h when h=12 r=4 inchs
V= 1/3 pi i6 h take derivative
dV/dt = 16/3 pi dh / dt but dh/dt =1 inch per minute
dV/ dt=16/3 pi

Volume of cylindar = pi r^2 h but r=6
V= 36 pi h take derivative
dV/dt =36 pi dh/dt but dV/dt= 16/ 3 pi
16/3 pi = 36 pi dh/dt
dh/dt = 1/3 [ 16/36]
dh/dt = 1/3[ 4/9]inch per minute
Arthur
 
Sorry Arthur,
Volume of cone V=1/3 pi r^2 h when h=12 r=4 inchs
V= 1/3 pi i6 h take derivative
dV/dt = 16/3 pi dh / dt

But as h changes, so does r. You would have to use the product rule on d(r²h) to do it your way.
----------------------
Gene
 
Gene-
4/9 must be wrong

If you had a cylindar of radius 4, same as cones surface at time of calculation, emptying at a rate of 1 inch / minute , into a cylindar of 6 inchs then the cylinder
receiving the liquid, surface would be rising at a rate of :
dh/dt=[ 4^2 /6^2 ] 1 inch / minute
dh/dt = [16/36] inchs / minute
dh/dt=[ 4/9] inchs per minute

I find it hard to believe the cone with a smaller volume would raise the level of the liquid in the cylinder at the same rate, regardless of the math techniques used.

Arthur
 
Gene-
Assume a cylindar of radius 4 inchs emptying at a rate of 1 inch / min.
What volume leaves in 1 minute?
Volume = pi 4^2 cubic inchs

Assume that flows into a cylindar of radius 6 inchs.
What is depth of liquid in larger , or receiving cylindar?
Volume = pi 6^2 h where h is height of liquid
pi4^2=pi 6^2 h solve for h
h= 4/9 inchs
The surface of the liquid has been raised 4/9 inch in 1 minute
or dh/dt = 4/9 inchs per minute

How is it possible for a cone of radius 4 to fill the cylindar at the same rate of depth change as the cylindar of radius 4 did?
Arthur
 
gene-
You are correct. At any instany of time the cones surface is a circle and its depth delta h as h approaches zero , the volume becomes that of a cylindar of depth delta h.
Sorry for the error on my part
Arthur
 
You shouldn't be surprised that the rates at that instant should be the same. That is the only time they are the same.
The surface of the liquid has been raised 4/9 inch in 1 minute
is true for the cylinders, but it is not true for the cone. One's rate is linear, the other's rate is quadratic. Dh/dt for the cone is constantly changing, probably with the wet surface area of the cone.
------------------
Gene

PS. Art, I see that you crept in while I was typing. Got to learn to type faster.
 
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